Episode 9

Speedy Onboarding! How A Nuclear Power Expert Is Heating Up The Hiring Process!

In this episode we turn to a former graduate of the US Naval Nuclear Power School who’s used his technology and engineering background to create a solution that promises to reduce the hiring time from weeks to days. After all, nuclear power is used to make submarines and aircraft carriers go faster, why not the hiring process?

Media reports of staff shortages in key sectors such as hospitality are hampering the efforts and viability of businesses keen to reopen after the lockdowns. The competition for staff is currently fierce and as the saying goes ‘you snooze, you lose’.

Mike Seidle, the co-founder and COO of Work Here explains how organisations can use technology to:

beat their competitors in the race for talent;
improve the overall candidate experience for both successful and unsuccessful candidates;
increase diversity and inclusivity;
build a positive employer brand.
Mike considers the hiring process for most candidates to be “Dystopian”. Organisations have made investments in order to hire hopefully faster and cheaper but the candidate experience is still light-years behind.

A fascinating exploration of the hiring process particularly in terms of how technology can genuinely improve the candidate experience.

About my guest

In this episode we turn to a former graduate of the US Naval Nuclear Power School who’s used his technology and engineering background to create a solution that promises to reduce the hiring time from weeks to days. After all, nuclear power is used to make submarines and aircraft carriers go faster, why not the hiring process?

Transcript

Mike Siedle
[00:00:00] Chris Taylor: [00:00:00] Welcome to the oven. Ready HR podcast. We tell compelling stories from the world of work to bring you captivating and thought provoking conversations with expert analysis and insights to find out more about your show host Chris Taylor, visit oven ready, hr.com. And please do remember to rate and review us.
[00:00:18] You can also follow us too on Twitter at oven HR. Thanks.
[00:00:29] This week’s episode of oven and ready HR, we consider how technology is increasingly being deployed to improve and speed up the process of finding and hiring new employees. Technology such as AI and applicant tracking systems have revolutionized what was often a slow and laborious task of reading, endless CVS and resumes to produce a short list for interview only to find out that half of your list have already been offered another role. Whereas technology has undoutoubly made the task of finding new hires, easier and more [00:01:00] productive for employers. The jury is perhaps still out on whether the candidate experience has improved. Candidates, still beoman the below par service they receive from recruiters who after raising expectations suddenly seem to disappear and the rigidity of applicant tracking systems program to seek particular references and therefore unable to view the candidate on a whole. So in order to hear more about how technology can be best applied to the hiring process, I’ve naturally turned to a former US Navy and graduate of its Naval nuclear power school in Orlando. Discuss the hiring conundrum. Mike Seidle is the co-founder and chief technology officer of Work Here a technology business based in Indianapolis, the firm has developed a technology solution that promises to reduce the hiring time from weeks to days by screening and qualifying talent. Mike, welcome to Oven ready. I’ve characterized technology developments in the hiring process is largely to the benefits of the employer. Am I [00:02:00] being a little unfair on that, or do you think the candidate experience still has to catch up a little bit?
[00:02:06] Mike Seidle: [00:02:06] I think the candidate experience has a long, long way to go right now. We’ve sure spent a lot of money making the experience better for recruiters and better for employers, I think a lot of candidates, the experience they get, I think dystopian is the right word to describe what they go through. It’s not good.
[00:02:26] Incidentally. I’m really glad to be here today. And, and Chris, this was the first time anyone’s ever cited my nuclear power experience qualification for HR.
[00:02:36] Chris Taylor: [00:02:36] I think it’s fascinating. I’m dying to hear more about it is that as you genuinely there’s Naval nuclear power school, I mean,what do you study that sort of plutonium and uranium and all sorts of things.
[00:02:47]
[00:02:47] Mike Seidle: [00:02:47] We, we study how to fission uranium and make a submarine go very quickly underwater or an aircraft carrier go really quickly. That’s what we did. So it, it is literally nuclear power is applied [00:03:00] to. You know, fighting wars with Navy ships, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:04] Chris Taylor: [00:03:04] Yeah. So you’re like Crimson tide.
[00:03:06] I mean, you really, I mean, you know, this is that great, that sort of Denzel Washington Gene Hackman movie and maybe this is, this is quite an, you know, this is exciting stuff bringing nuclear power into HR. So you were saying that the process for the candidates still has some, has still some way to go.
[00:03:18] It’s rather dystopian. Why is that do
[00:03:20] Mike Seidle: [00:03:20] you think? Well, I think it comes down to a real simple problem and that’s that we spend a lot of time working on what we see as employers and solving our problems as an employer. And we do this stuff every day, right? So I’m, I’m always advertising jobs. I’m always hiring people I’m always interviewing. We get very good at dealing with kind of that daily grind and we buy tools that help us automate that work, make it so we can interview more people faster, better, cheaper all that good stuff. And we don’t really think a lot about what’s the experience really like on the other end.
[00:03:55] And so what has evolved is a process where we spend [00:04:00] a lot of time processing candidates in advance of any human involvement and then when the humans get involved they’re in little fits and starts. So it might go like this. I apply on Indeed and three, four weeks later, I get an email or a phone call telling me that somebody would like to talk to me about my application and then they do a little screening and then a few weeks later, I get invited back to do an interview and that’s all well and good if you’re one of the people that get selected for that, if you’re not, you invested a considerable amount of time applying to the job and you hear nothing from the employer for three, four weeks. And when you do you get a vaguely worded letter that says we’re not going to hire you.
[00:04:40]And not really telling you what those reasons are. Right. And we think that’s a really bad experience. And then when you look at the shortage of talent, that’s out there, how we’re treating candidates, doesn’t match up with how critical making hires is to our businesses right now. So, you know, we’re all going very, very slow and methodically and processing [00:05:00] candidates like we processed chicken almost. And and meanwhile, some of the best candidates are engaging with employers and getting hired and so by the time a lot of companies get around to actually reaching out to candidates. The best ones have all been hired by someone else. And I think that process repeats itself day in and day out in almost every company in the world.
[00:05:26] I it’s kind of amazing that it works. And I think in some cases it does work, but we all have to remember all the technology we have. Most of it was built during a period of time where unemployment was high. And so screening was what we were all concerned with. And now that we’re dealing with low levels of unemployment and incredible amounts of turnover in churn it may be time to start thinking differently. Maybe it’s time to start looking at candidates as being scarce and good candidates, especially being very, very important and very worthy of a [00:06:00] first class experience.
[00:06:01] Chris Taylor: [00:06:01] Okay. So many of the technological advances in the hiring process is that have happened do you think this is really been driven by it in a way to drive down cost of acquisition almost? Is that the key driver or were there other key drivers would you say?
[00:06:17] Mike Seidle: [00:06:17] There are three or four keys to it. Cost of acquisition is a big one. Candidate acquisition cost is a metric that most recruiting managers, most talent professionals track.
[00:06:27]We, we see an awful lot of effort being put in to automate and if not about cost you know, in the United States, diversity and inclusion is a really important area that we all have to deal with. So we see a lot of effort being put into automation around diversity and inclusion from the standpoint that at least with the computer asking the questions, it asks the same one every time and we don’t have as much human creativity creating diversity problems.
[00:06:56]So there’s, there’s some of that, that’s a driver and, and the other one [00:07:00] that’s a real driver is we all want to find better talent and we’re all looking for better ways to do that. And so we, we kind of have conflicting directives, save money, get better talent. Those two, usually aren’t the same thing, right?
[00:07:15] Chris Taylor: [00:07:15] Absolutely. So I mean, you, you, you, I mean, your, your solution is, is, is really narrowing this, this, this time, isn’t it. In terms of actually, you know, the candidate applies and therefore there is almost an immediate engagement with the firm that they are looking to join, that there are any particular sectors in particular where the speed of hire is really, really key right now that you see?
[00:07:38] Mike Seidle: [00:07:38] Well, we see a lot of it in areas that were affected by COVID at the moment. So we’ve got a lot of companies in the United States right now. A lot of our hospitality industry is starting to come back online. Yeah. And so we’re seeing a lot of, a lot of companies that had laid off their [00:08:00] employees six, eight months ago, 10 months ago are now coming back into the market and they’re competing for a very small pool of people that are interested in going back to work here in the US.
[00:08:11] The reason for that is we’ve been handing out a bigger than usual unemployment cheques and a lot of the workers that would ordinarily be working at the local hotel get paid just as well to sit at home and do nothing. So the employers that are, that are in those lower wage sectors right now, or are definitely needing to go faster and faster, but we also see speed being a real important factor in the quality of candidate experience, even for a six figure per year management and technical jobs. So we do a lot of work with software developers, engineers, environmental experts, that sort of thing. And we’re seeing where speed makes a big difference there too. Even you wouldn’t think it, but how many times does somebody who applies for a software developer job, get to [00:09:00] talk to a recruiter within 10 seconds of when they hit submit on their apply?
[00:09:05] Chris Taylor: [00:09:05] That’s amazing. I mean, I’m glad you mentioned that the hospitality sector, because actually here in the UK, that’s the big issue too, is that the, you know, restaurants and hotels are finding it difficult to open their normal working hours because they can’t find enough staff because you know that the members have moved on, they’re doing something else or they, you know, because of Brexit, for example, which is obviously a UK thing that actually, you know, workers from Europe have now returned back to the European mainland. So there’s a real shortage here of of hospitality staff. And I think that is going to affect the performance of, you know, some of these businesses going forward. So it’s interesting that actually it’s the same in the United States that, you know, people are reluctant to work to, you know, to return to those particular positions.
[00:09:47] Mike Seidle: [00:09:47] Another really interesting thing here in the US and I think you can probably speak to Britain as well. Is we’re, we’re seeing a lot of the employers coming back online are surprised by [00:10:00] how much they have to pay compared to what they did. Previous to this time last year. Yeah. Wages are, are definitely up in some cases, 25, 30%.
[00:10:09]And, and so that creates another problem. It’s like, okay, we started recruiting. Why isn’t anybody applying? It’s like, well, Because you gotta pay more. So there’s a lot of that going on. It’s, it’s really an interesting time to be in this industry.
[00:10:21] Chris Taylor: [00:10:21] Sure no, absolutely. I mean, we talked a lot about the speed and obviously your solution is very speed centric, which is, which is very interesting, but it said that, you know, many organizations are slightly too quick to hire and too slow to fire. And does increasing the speed of hiring, does that, does that increase the risk of making a poor decision? Do you think?
[00:10:42] Mike Seidle: [00:10:42] It can, if you, if you don’t approach hiring in a disciplined way, it definitely can lead to bad hires. But what we’re seeing more of is because most people go so slow . The best candidates just aren’t available when they get around to making offers.
[00:10:58] So I go [00:11:00] back to a customer that we had that was trying to hire someone for a to operate a mat rolling machine of all things. This is a machine you put a piece of carpet in and it rolls it. And the qualification for the job is you have to be able to put the correct side of the carpet up
[00:11:16] yeah, that’s right. If you put it fuzzy side down, it’s bad. If you put a fuzzy side up, it’s good. And they were taking 45 days to hire for this position. And so by the time they got around to actually getting ready to hire people, all of the candidates that could actually put the fuzzy side up on the carpe got hired somewhere else and were no longer available. And what we see is there’s a real balance. There’s probably going too fast and there’s probably going too slow. And, and really what we need to do as recruiters is find that happy medium, where we’re going fast enough, that we’re engaging the best talent and getting them through the hiring process before our competitors get the offer to them. But at the same time, making sure that we’re disciplined and rigorous and making sure they [00:12:00] actually are qualified doing all those background and reference checks that we should do. And making sure we have plenty of time for the business people to do their interview so we get a good cultural fit.
[00:12:11] Chris Taylor: [00:12:11] Okay and, and to take advantage of that, some of the technological changes in hiring, what preparations do candidates need to make to their own sort of digital profiles. Do yo think.
[00:12:21] Mike Seidle: [00:12:21] Well before COVID hit. Social media was a big deal for, for a lot of them. And I still, to this day, it’s amazing when we get a job application that comes through Facebook, how many people don’t bother to look at their own profile on Facebook.
[00:12:36] So we have people every day who apply for a job. And then you go even though recruiters, aren’t supposed to go look at all the pictures on your Facebook profile. They sure do. And they notice that 85% of the pictures on your profile, have you holding a drink in your hand or have you smoking weed or something like that?
[00:12:52]So there really is a need for candidates to clean up their profile and make sure that it looks good. That doesn’t mean you have to remove anything [00:13:00] that’s fun from your profile, but it does mean if you’re doing things that are illegal and the pictures on your profile, you might not want to show that.
[00:13:07] And then the other thing we see an awful lot of is. We, we have a service where we chat with candidates with live humans right after they apply. So you apply on Indeed. You get sent in to talk to one of our chat agents and it is amazing to us about 13 and a half percent of the candidates we get, we have to correct something on their resume and it could be a really important detail, like your hire you’re a, you applied for a truck driver position, but your indeed profile says that your CDL license expired two years ago.
[00:13:38] Yeah. If it wasn’t for the human reviewing that the ATS would have screened that candidate out automaticly. So you, you really do want to make sure you update your resume, update your profiles on your job boards before you apply for a job. If you’re a candidate, it really does improve your chance.
[00:13:56] Chris Taylor: [00:13:56] No absolutely. I can remember when I was in recruitment, I had a [00:14:00] candidate who the, the role was attention to detail and she had written on her resume that, you know, she had fantastic attention to detail, which was fine apart she had spelled attention wrong. So, I mean, I think you’re right. I mean, I think you do have to get someone else to look at all this information that you’re going to put up on, on online or, or, or in a printed document, whatever it i I think it has to be absolutely. Right. And as you say, an applicant tracking system is going to sort of throw these things out, isn’t it. And it’s going to disadvantage a candidate imeasurably if they are not able to provide information in a, in a succinct and carefully written way.
[00:14:32] Mike Seidle: [00:14:32] And accurate way. And, and that kind of goes back to that question you asked me earlier you know, we, we, we have people either. If you look at these employers, they’re all going to process you three or four different ways. You’re going to have the job board asking you screener questions. You’re going, you know, you’re going to have an SMS conversation via chat, maybe with somebody where they’re going to ask you more screener questions, then they’re going to review your resume and your job application and all, a lot of that is going to be [00:15:00] done automatically and so if you put that information into that process, the outcome is going to be about as bad as the information that you give it. Is that old garbage in garbage out rule, right?
[00:15:11] Chris Taylor: [00:15:11] Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and, and, and technology, how has it being used? By by recruiters or in organizations now to identify and find new pools of talent.
[00:15:22] Mike Seidle: [00:15:22] We’ve seen a lot of interest in kind of automated tools for doing sourcing. So you know, there’s a few companies that have huge resume libraries that we’ve all used for years and years. But there’s lots and lots of really creative upcoming companies that are having they’re searching the internet constantly and spider and constantly are plugging in to credit reporting or any number of different tools to, to get at candidates faster so that we can reach out to them and, and engage with them.
[00:15:52] And so we see a lot of interest there and of course you know, we’re seeing right now there’s just way more openings than there are people to [00:16:00] fill them in a lot of markets. So a lot of employers are getting very, very creative in what kind of tools they use. You know, it’s really funny yesterday evening we, we share office space with a little, a little RPO, and I was talking to one of the people at the RPO and they were working on customizing doing a Google custom search engine so that they could automatically search certain websites for, for talent. So we see all kinds of different creative things.
[00:16:27] I think we’re a lot of recruiters really missed the boat though, is it’s easy to make a pile of candidates. The hard part is to engage them and get them talking. And I think the engagement thing is really where we should be spending the most time because the perfect candidate is worthless. If you can’t talk them.
[00:16:44] Chris Taylor: [00:16:44] No. Absolutely and this is really, I mean, this, this is the basis of your, of your solution, isn’t it? It is engaging with that candidate at a very, very early stage. Talk me through that a little bit. How’s that process work?
[00:16:57] Mike Seidle: [00:16:57] Yeah. So we, we started doing this few years back [00:17:00] and, and it, it was really because we had a failing job board, mobile job board product that really didn’t work very well.
[00:17:05] So we started appending chat to it because we thought that we could get more of the candidates to finish the process and that worked so well that when COVID hit, we decided to stop doing the mobile app job board thing. And we switched over to doing just a a hundred percent chat based recruiting work.
[00:17:23] And we actually built a whole new product. And the whole idea is this. We want to hook up our chat system to wherever your candidates are applying for jobs or you’re sourcing them from. And then what we want to do is use text messaging to reach out to the candidate in the U S we use SMS when we’re in Europe are working you know, in Asia Pacific or whatever, we end up using chat apps because those, those are the more popular things to do.
[00:17:47] So things like WhatsApp and wine and all of those, but here in the U S SMS is the winne so we use that. And what’s really interesting is a we. About a five X [00:18:00] increase in the number of candidates that engage versus email and phone. And the reason for that is people are about 91% likely to receive and read a text message and we’re lucky to get a 20% open rate on an email. So just by using that messaging format, we get a lot of We get to a lot of candidates we wouldn’t otherwise. And the other thing that’s really nice is when you’re chatting, you can ask questions and actually have a conversation it’s very convenient for the candidate.
[00:18:26] So You know, really try to go to somebody, applies for a job. We try to get them to high as fast as we can within seconds. And then we try to really push the initial screening process and initial, you know, what would have traditionally been a phone screen we try to do via chat so that we can go ahead and qualify the candidate and then send them on to a recruiter as being both engaged and fully qualified and that process takes minutes sometimes. In other times we’ll have somebody, maybe a candidate that is taking breaks from work and it might take them a day to finish at answering all [00:19:00] the questions. But when we get them to the recruiter, we know that they’re talking, which is a big thing, and we know that they’re qualified.
[00:19:05] And so. Tends to lead to a lot less work for the recruiters. And because we’re talking to the candidate, you know, if somebody doesn’t have a qualification, we can tell them right there. Hey, you don’t have the qualification need to have when you get that, you can come back and apply again. Does that sound good?
[00:19:21] And they all say, yeah.
[00:19:22] Chris Taylor: [00:19:22] Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really interesting. I think it’s, it’s, it’s a very interesting concept typically for the candidate also, because I think that there’s an acknowledgement in, in the work that you’re doing, that the candidate realizes that their application has actually gone somewhere and it has, it’s not just sitting in someone’s sort of junk folder and it’ll never be accessed or seen again so I think from that, from that engagement level, I think that’s a really cool thing to do.
[00:19:47] Mike Seidle: [00:19:47] It really works. It works well. And the thing that makes me the happiest about it is when I look at the ratings that the candidates give us for the conversations, what we see [00:20:00] a 4.8 out of five points. And that includes even people that get rejected from, from the hiring process.
[00:20:07] So people are really, really happy with it. And I think immediate answers are really what makes that work. You know, people understand. There not going to always get the job. What they don’t understand is when we make them wait 90 days to, and then send them a vaguely worded letter that says we decided not to hire you 90 days ago for reasons we can’t tell you,
[00:20:26] Chris Taylor: [00:20:26] we can’t tell you and we can’t remember.
[00:20:29] Mike Seidle: [00:20:29] Yeah. We know we can’t remember them. And even if we did, we’re not going to tell you anyway. So that whole experience is really poor. And, and so we, we really think. You know, the, the more direct and faster you can go with a candidate, the happier they’re going to be and with candidates being scarce might be a good time to treat them well.
[00:20:50] Chris Taylor: [00:20:50] Yeah I mean, you have a bit of a marketing background, so in some ways the work that you’ve done with this particular service and product is it is sort of reinforcing isn’t it? So the [00:21:00] employer’s brand and actually they are responsible employer and a good employer, even if you don’t, as I say, you know, process through the through the tracking and, and you don’t actually ultimately get the job, but actually you have a good experience of that particular organization don’t you, if they’re using this sort of, you know, or this sort of product,
[00:21:18] Mike Seidle: [00:21:18] The candidate experiences is a very, very underrated way to improve your brand. If you, if you treat your candidates well, that does have an effect at the cash register, if you will. It really does. And nothing will make somebody less likely to buy from you faster than treating them poorly when they apply for a job.
[00:21:44] I mean, I think back to early in my career, I applied at a, a pretty good size cable company for a technology position. I was coming out of the Navy as a nuclear engineer figured, Hey, that would work. I had a terrible experience. And when it came [00:22:00] time to get cable television for my apartment, you better bet I was not calling them.
[00:22:04] Chris Taylor: [00:22:04] No, absolutely. No, absolutely. It really does matter
[00:22:07]Mike Seidle: [00:22:07] yeah, it really does. And it’s, it’s very that whole candidate experience to the candidate is, is very, very personal. And when we treat him poorly they take it personally.
[00:22:17] Chris Taylor: [00:22:17] Sure, sure. Absolutely. And you mentioned earlier about, you know, obviously technology being used to increase diversity and inclusivity. Tell me a little bit more about that. What, what sort of gap has to be closed here?
[00:22:28] Mike Seidle: [00:22:28] Well, the, the, one of the problems we see in diversity and inclusion is A lot of times companies have all these automated processes, that block candidates from being able to interact with the human beings that are actually doing the recruiting and that can lead to in a lot of cases, people feeling like they were unfairly treated, they didn’t even get a chance to interview that sort of thing.
[00:22:53] And what we find by, you know, kind of pushing that, that human to human interaction earlier in the [00:23:00] process. Candidates are able to get questions answered and able to ask questions before they invest an hour and a half in applying for a job or you know, going through your a 14 page online application.
[00:23:12]And, and they’ll feel a lot better about the whole process. And what we’re seeing too is the nice thing about chat is being able to do chat on a multi-lingual basis is a lot easier to do. So here, here you know, if you look at the story, if I go, you know, say I have a diversity problem here in the U S or I’ve described somebody is accusing me of discrimination if some of the candidates could talk to HR and some couldn’t that could be basis for an, a negative action. If we’re allowing everybody to have an experience where they’re able to ask questions right away, and they’re able to talk to a human, should they want to. We’re much less likely to have problems at that step.
[00:23:49] So you know, the, how you treat people in the candidate experience, it comes out in the wash and the diversity story too.
[00:23:55] Chris Taylor: [00:23:55] Yeah, no, absolutely. Now, lastly, I mean, looking into your sort of crystal ball, what other [00:24:00] areas of the hiring process do you think tech could be applied to that actually it would speed something up or make, or, or improve the, improve the, the process for everyone. Whats ripe for innovation?
[00:24:11]
[00:24:11] Mike Seidle: [00:24:11] Well Outside of that, that top of the funnel where we live and where we work. I see an awful, you know what I mean, my customers, I see those that have invested in really good onboarding and have connected their different systems together so that when they onboard someone, the insurance policies are automatically set up and the payroll records are automatically set up.
[00:24:32] And all of that seem to be able to deliver a much better employment experience than those that you know, they make a hire and then camp run a muck and SUSE. So onboarding is really a big, and then the other area that we’re just starting to really see some, some real promising things. I think as you look at the entire, how people apply for your job prior to when we get them right now there’s a lot of the job boards can do [00:25:00] native applies, which takes a lot of the friction out of the application for the job seeker.
[00:25:04]And a lot of. A lot of companies don’t accept native applies. They want everyone to go to their career website and fill in the application. That’s on the career website. The problem with that is that the career website experience is horrible. And you’ve got 26 pages of questions that you have to answer one or two at a time and then if you get disconnected, you have to start over and all of that. And a lot of the best talent really as soon as they have a problem with the application, they’re gone, they’re going to go somewhere else. Someone’s, sticktuitiveness going through your application process might not be a good signal on whether they’re going to be a good candidate. It just means they have a very high tolerance for bureaucracy.
[00:25:46] Chris Taylor: [00:25:46] No, absolutely. I mean, like, I, I have been that person myself actually. And I have, you know, as you say, you get sort of halfway through and then then the connection drops or something goes wrong or something doesn’t upload actually. Do you know what? You just walk away from it because you just think I can’t be bothered.
[00:25:58]Mike Seidle: [00:25:58] It works, works a lot better [00:26:00] when the employers, you know, are okay with, okay, I got part of this application from indeed. Let’s go ahead and engage, have a conversation, collect the rest of it. It’s a much better experience and, and you’ll find you get better talent that way.
[00:26:13] Chris Taylor: [00:26:13] Absolutely. Now, Mike, if, if listeners want to get hold of you, how did they do that?
[00:26:16]Our website is work here.com. Welcome to go there. I’m on LinkedIn all the time. Just search for my name, Mike Seidel. It’s pretty unique. But as the first result usually. But I absolutely love talking to people about recruiting problems and, and right now we’re dealing with an awful lot of people that are having candidate flow issues and having issues with that initial engagement love to help them solve it
[00:26:38] Brilliant Mike Seidel thank you very much, indeed.
[00:26:41] Mike Seidle: [00:26:41] Thanks so much for having me today Chris

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Guest(s)

Jeremy Hunt MP

“I opened five new medical schools and increased the number of doctors, nurses, and midwives. We trained by 25%, which is one of the biggest ever single increases, but I always felt we need to be much more strategic and you know, we, we need to recognise that it’s not just pandemics with an ageing population we’re going to need more capacity in our health provision, much more capacity and that means we’ve got to be very strategic and say, look, how many doctors are we going to need in 10 years time in 20 years time, because it takes 7 years to train one. So we need to get cracking”
Episode 4
Season 2

Are Some of HR’s Favourite Gurus and Management Thinkers Just A Load Of Old Hype?

Guest(s)

Michael F Schein

Michael Schein questions our slavish devotion to individuals such as Simon Sinek. As Michael says: “… he’s not a social scientist. He’s not a scientist of any sort. He worked in ad agencies before he became a professional guru. So, his best talent is selling stuff. “
Episode 3
Season 2

Defence Against Workplace Bullying

Guest(s)

Dr Sam Farley

“So, if you’ve got two colleagues on the same level who don’t like each other and they’re sending each other nasty emails. We wouldn’t really call that bullying because there’s no apparent power disparity there it’s just a kind of conflict. But when you get a differential such as maybe a boss is doing it to their subordinate, then you have a bit of a powered disparity at play. That’s when something can become workplace bullying. “

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